Freelance Dietitian Podcast

050: Copywriting 101 Ft. Holly Larson MS, RDN

• Julia Zakrzewski • Season 3 • Episode 50

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Holly Larson MS, RDN is a fulltime nutrition copywriter and new mom! Today she shares: 

  • Tips to make your writing more exciting 
  • Her roadmap (and timeline) for creating a blog 
  • Why imposter syndrome is the worst! 
  • How she balances the working-mom life and being an entrepreneur 

You can get in touch with Holly here:
Website: https://www.hollylarsonwrites.com/
Instagram: Holly Larson Writes
Her Writing Workshop on December 14th 1pm EST -  Sign up here! 
Join her RD Blog Club (This is an affiliate link) - Check it out now! 

Love the show? Consider donating, leaving a 5 star review, or sharing this episode with your friends! Your support keeps the show afloat so new content can be released every week. Thank you very much!

Hey, and welcome to the freelance dietitian podcast. A show that teaches you how freelancing can help you meet your financial goals. While giving you space to unplug and enjoy your life. I'm your host, Julia Zakrzewski a published freelance writer in the nutrition and wellness space. In today's episode, I interview Holly Larson. And RD that has made a living from copywriting, not to mention built a phenomenal track record. Today, she'll talk about her experience as a writer and her transition into becoming a working mom. Let's get into it. Hey everyone. Welcome to this week's episode. I am very excited to bring Holly onto the show, but I did want to do a little preamble before we get started. Last week's episode was such a phenomenal hit. It really like touched all the strings in my heart. And that's exactly what I was hoping for. For the listeners. I received several emails and messages on Instagram from everybody who truly enjoyed themselves and said they had a blast. And that's exactly what the show was for. So again, a big round of applause for everybody who made a submission. I could not have done that episode without you. And I did get a few listeners, send me a message and say, Hey, where's your poem. And I'm so sorry. I was so caught up editing the episode and making sure I included everyone. I forgot to put in my own, so I have to do it now. It's only right. And I wrote two haikus. One is more about eating. Not necessarily dietetics. So this is my first one. What should I eat now? Grumbling stomach. I hear you. Uber eats here I come. Relatable right. I love cooking, but some nights you need a day off. And then this is the second one I wrote about my own experience in dietetics so far. Student then intern. Working, but still I want more. Entrepreneurship. And here we are baby. Exactly. One year ago. I put in my notice to quit my job and it feels like a lifetime ago. It really, really does. Next episode is going to be the end of year episode for the podcast, going to take a Christmas break here I'm going to do a year interview. I'm going to talk about some milestones, learning moments that I found really profound. And have definitely made me pivot in my business and what that looks like for the future. I also got some really lovely questions from listeners that I want to answer before the year is done. Today, I am going to be interviewing Holly Larson. She is a dietitian with a diverse background and professional experiences. And recently within the past five years she started to write for a living and she never knew it was an option for rds until. until she just kind of stumbled onto it. And i'll let her share her story As i mentioned last week at the end of the episode holly is so zen and relaxed and she will just Make you slow down. Really enjoyable speaker and i'm sure you're going to learn a lot. Let's bring holly on the show right now

Julia:

Welcome to the show, Holly. It's so great to have you here. Did you wanna say hi to listeners

Holly:

hi?Everyone. Hi. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I'm really excited to be here today to talk about writing.

Julia:

Yes, I'm super excited too, and we've had this discussion on the podcast before, a difference between a copywriter and a content writer, but I do think there's new listeners. So do you mind just clarifying what a copywriter is?

Holly:

Absolutely. It's an important distinction and a common question. There are lots of kinds of writing, but we can kind of broadly divide them into two buckets. There's writing that is meant to entertain, and then there's writing that's meant to cause action. So as a copywriter, we are trying to drive action, and that's what makes copywriting special. Dietitians are really good at teaching. We're food nerds and science nerds, and we love to connect people about this study or this food or vegetable, and that's really great, but we need to take the next step and encourage our readers to take action, and that's a distinction between a blog just meant to inform versus a blog that ends with a call to action and encourages our readers to take whatever that next step.

Julia:

That's perfect. And do you have any examples of excellent copy that you've fallen victim to?

Holly:

Oh gosh. Um, I'll say the course that I took to become a copywriter.

Julia:

Yes.

Holly:

Had really great calls to action that spoke to my needs and what I was going through at the time.

Julia:

Yeah, totally. And I can even tell Holly Big credit to you when I read your website, I'm like, oh yeah, she knows exactly what she's doing. I am totally believing every word and especially on your monthly, uh, blog club where your subscription's open right now. I was reading it through and it was just so, it was perfect. So if anyone wants to see an example of great copy, I will direct them there and there will be a link for that in the show notes.

Holly:

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Julia:

Yeah. And. Really we'll address it later, so I'll put a pin in that thought for now. But I'm curious if you can share with listeners what does a normal workday look like for you?

Holly:

Gosh, I am working on having a more calm and clear day. I can say that I was working and beyond full time before I had my first baby and probably my only baby. And now I'm trying to condense my work week into three days a week. And writing has so much potential to be a really great fit for a lot of people, including parents, because it's flexible. So I'd say I'm learning how to have a smooth day, um, what I aspire to have my days be like. Dropping the kiddo off at daycare. I have a Peloton bike, so getting on the bike that helps my brain to work best. You know, the older I get, the less I care about exercise and how it makes my body look. I really just care about how it makes my brain feel Um, so when I have the time to do a little movement to kick off the day, that's really great. Um, and then the day moves forward with me. Actually working on writing projects, but there's actually a surprising amount of time that goes into the prep before projects. So doing good keyword research to make sure that it's a good topic to cover for the client. Uh, communicating with my clients, doing edits. Um, my blog club, that's part of my day to day, making sure that I'm providing value to them. Making new lessons for my writing course. Um, chatting with people on Facebook, providing quotes, um, which then is an opportunity for back links for my business, which is good for seo. So, kind of a little of this, a little of that. And then trying not to spend too much time on distractions like laundry or the dishwasher or things like that. Since I work from home and. Always there

Julia:

Yes, absolutely. And how do you handle it, Holly on the days where you're just waking up and there's just no creative juice in the tank. What do you do?

Holly:

Hmm, that's tough. Um, and on days when you're tired, especially when my little kiddo is teething, which if any parent has been through that, It's brutal. I guess it's a good thing that this happens when you're young enough not to remember cuz it's just really hard. Um, things that, um, there can be a lot of reasons why you're not feeling creative and some of them are. More obvious, like tired or, identifying that I'm trying to fit too much into a day. I have to be honest with myself that I cannot fit five days worth of work into three as much as I've tried. Um, but then also there are things like, you're not working with the right client or on the right project. So last year I was working with a client on a web copy project. and I was really excited about her business. She is new in the field and had an interesting story, um, but it became clear that we were not a good match to work together because she simply could not provide feedback in a way that was understandable. Mm-hmm. this is an upcoming blog post. She would just highlight things and. Needs refinement. So for her, she knew what I was saying wasn't the right fit, but she was not able to say, here's what it means, or here's more what I'm looking for. She literally could just say, needs refinement. And I tried. I tried to explain, you know, it's like taking a dress to the tailor. And you say, this is not right. So that doesn't give the tailor information. Does it need to be shorter? Do you need to fix the zipper? Do you need to add a ribbon? You know, there are a lot of ways that a tailor could make a garment different, but if you're not explaining that to the tailor, the tailor doesn't know what to do. And that's how I feel. Um, so I need more details. Here's how to do it. And it just didn't work. So I had to stop working with this client because, We weren't a good fit to work together.

Julia:

Yeah.

Holly:

So all that to say, as much as I wanted to help this person, I had to be honest with the fact that we weren't a good fit to work together.

Julia:

Mm-hmm. Totally. And also those. Projects sometimes just don't align with your creative output, which can actually hinder you further because then your wheels are turning thinking about, well, how do I make this better? How do we keep moving forward? And that kind of drains you more so you don't have energy than to put into the creative part of the process. Right?

Holly:

Yeah. I was losing sleep over that client.

Julia:

It's hard.

Holly:

And that was a real impact on my life outside of work and my life inside my work, trying to. Provide good quality for all of my clients. So that was a real bottleneck that I just had to be honest of, this isn't the right fit, the right client. Um, we're not helping each other, which is the goal. It's okay to break up with clients as professionally as possible.

Julia:

Yeah. Such a valuable message. Thank you for sharing that. Cause I'm sure a lot of us hang on for longer than maybe we should.

Holly:

Yes, I did. So that was a lesson learned. Um, yeah. So that can really impact your ability to feel creative. So that was kind of a long story, but the point of, yeah, um, paying attention to your emotions, the real amount of minutes that you have in a day, and things like moving and having good food and all of that impacts your ability to be creative and provide good copy for your own business and for others, if that's what you.

Julia:

Yeah. And do you find, um, like sticking to a schedule, like can you train your brain a little bit so that, Hey, I'm only gonna work in these hours for the next month. Do you naturally feel more creative at those time slots?

Holly:

You know, there's something to be said for a looming deadline to get

Julia:

That's right.

Holly:

Um, and I am, I would say I'm in process of getting more of a block schedule. I'm trying to be in a block schedule. I have been in a block schedule in the past. Um, but that's where I'm headed. I'm not there yet, but I would like to be.

Julia:

Yeah, me too. I mean, I'm definitely, as soon as you said, trying to squeeze five days of work into one, I was like, that's the camp I'm in. Yeah. I think so many rds are. I think positive, I'm like, it's cuz we're ambitious and driven not because we're workaholics

Holly:

You know, I think an entrepreneur's brain is. Different than a nine to five or brain. I think our eternal optimism is what makes us become entrepreneurs to begin with. Yes. But the other side of that coin is that we're just like, well, of course it'll fit, it'll work.

Julia:

It'll no problem. Just squeeze it in

Holly:

And sometimes that's true, and sometimes you're like, girl, yeah. Get real. You can't fit all of that into one week.

Julia:

Yes. I'd love to hear about your writing process for different articles and posts that you're making or whatever kind of content you're producing for your clients.

Holly:

Happy to. Um, and I'll say my writing process. It has evolved based on kind of figuring out what helps me, but also from, uh, the folks that I mentor in my blog club and through my writing course. Um, well, what I've learned is that it's really important to separate the different parts of writing. So most often I'm writing blogs for clients, um, and that's what I mentor people through with the blog club. And what's really important is to separate research from writing and from editing. Those are all three different processes and we tend to, as dietitians jump in and try and do all those things at once and have a really good draft right off the bat. And that is a recipe for disaster So, Doing your researching an outline that's a different space for your brain. So do that separately, do your writing separately. And I think it's really important to give yourself permission to write an S F D, which stands for shitty first draft. Um, a Ala Bne Brown. Thank you very much. She's a Wonder Woman. Yes. Um, And giving yourself permission to have it be a shitty first draft is so important because if you're going in there expecting your first writing to be good, and when you're drafting things are not good, but that's normal. So you have to give yourself permission for the first draft to just be a draft. Next you edit, and that's a different process too. So going back with fresh eyes on a different day. There is going to be really good writing in there, but with your fresh eyes, you can revise, you can jit, you can cut out the pieces that aren't as good, and then surprise, you're left with a really good draft. But if we try and edit at the same time that we're writing, we're just kind of getting in our own way and we're not actually gonna get much writing done. I also recommend hiring a proofreader. I knew that I needed to build that and to buy pricing right away cuz I'm not a good speller. But I also wasn't gonna let that be a barrier to, um, providing good content. I just was honest. That's not my greatest skill set, but I can hire that out. I don't need to be a good proof reader. But even if you are a good speller, it's still easier to read what you meant to write versus you actually wrote And then if you know you're tired, like a new mom, my editor, I've known her for years, and she'll be like, Hey do you wanna finish this sentence? That's half a sentence. I'm like, I do in fact, want to finish that sentence. It's half a sentence. Sentence. So you know, I can trust her. I don't feel. Embarrassed, like I feel okay sharing stuff with her when like 95% of it is good, but then when I have half a sentence, she's like, Hey, yeah, how you finish this sentence? Yeah. Thank you. I will be happy to finish that sentence. Thanks for checking that Um, and then either if it's for me, then I post it or for my client, then I share it with my client and they get to provide edits and feedback on what they'd like to see different or what they liked, and it was a good. Yeah. Yeah. So helpful. What a great, yeah, what a great breakdown. And how long would that take you for a first draft? Hmm. I like to limit the amount of time that I give myself to write a first draft, and life also has a way of doing that now in general. But yes, um, as a rule of thumb, uh, I like to limit. Drafting to 45 minutes. One, we'll give it as much time as we give it. So having a limit to begin with is a good, uh, uh, barrier to taking 900 years to write a blog post. Yes, totally. Setting up some kind of boundaries. That's cool. I do the same. I do 40 minutes and then I do maybe like 20 minutes for research if it's a topic. I don't know. And then I'll actually do 40 minutes anyway sometimes without doing the most up to date research. If it's something that I've reviewed within the last year, you know, and then I'll fact check it of course after. But it's just a brain dump, like it just works. Cause you know much more than you expect you do, if that makes sense. So I'll say all in two to four hours is what it takes me Start to finish with a blog. Shorter on topics that I'm more familiar with in writing for clients I'm more familiar with. And then of course it takes longer, um, with newer clients as I'm learning their voice and their niche. But they often are able to share, Hey, make sure to include this article cuz they're more of the experts in their field in their needs, whether it's digestive health or intuitive eating. So I don't actually. As a writer for other dietitians, I don't feel the pressure of being the top expert in every single niche. I mean, I'm learning a lot as I go, but my clients are actually able to provide good help and research. Well, of course I also do research too, but I see, I see it as a partnership. That's what I'm trying to say.

Julia:

It sounds like it. You both will make sure that finished project is everything it could be That's great. Do you have any resources when you're doing your own research that you would hit up? I know a lot of listeners always asking where can I find the most up to date free, if possible, articles.

Holly:

you know, you can find a surprising amount of good content, of good research articles through Google Scholar. And so that's actually a great place to start. You know, it was nice when we were students and had access to a bajillion things through the library. We don't have those anymore. So I use Google Scholar to get started and actually Healthline has really nice articles and while I don't recommend citing Healthline mm-hmm. you can look and see. Just that's a good overview of a topic if you're new. So that can save time as part of your research process. Um, but then you can also look at the articles that they cite. Yes. Um, and see if that might be useful for the particular viewpoint you're taking on a topic. Um, or just kind of some foundational interest. Um, we don't always have to reinvent the wheel, so if that can save you time and get connected with some of those good resources, I think that's a good way to.

Julia:

Yeah. Great points. Very practical. Thank you.

Holly:

What about you? Where do you like to find research articles? I

Julia:

also love to scour Healthline for the bibliography section, just to start. And then I like to hit up Harvard Health because they do cite a lot of their resources in the articles. If I'm writing for an American audience, if it's Canadian, I'll usually go for the hospitals actually, because they include all the references and I start from there.

Holly:

That's a great tip. And nice to have a process. You know, we don't all have to look, I think we can put pressure on ourselves that we have to look at every single article on the planet, and that's just not true or realistic. So it sounds like you have a good process to find good quality and current information and carry forward.

Julia:

Totally. One thing that I really loved in a podcast interview, I think it was actually about a year ago with Katie Dodd on her podcast, you said, one of the best tips for our writers to make it less boring. And I just love that you called it out. So what techniques do you have to maybe loosen up a little bit and make writing less boring?

Holly:

Mm, I love that. Thank you for that. Um, you know, As dietitians going through school, it is just harped on again and again. We need to be the experts and we need to be evidence based and you know that's true. We are experts. We do need to make sure that we have a reason for why we are making a claim or recommendation, but at the same time, if we are writing in a way that is putting our readers. To sleep. We are not actually helping them to lead healthier lives or in whatever way that we help our clients. We're not connecting with them because we are speaking in a way that is too scientific and they don't understand, or we're writing in a way that is boring and they're asleep and not listening. But I, I think it's important to acknowledge that where a lot of that comes from is imposter syndrome bubbling up. That sometimes speaking in a really scientific way makes us feel more credible when we're nervous to be speaking. And it's okay to acknowledge that, and especially when you're a newer writer and or a newer dietitian, especially in combo. It can feel really vulnerable to post things and to write things here to like, ah, we're putting things out into the world on the worldwide web. But, and it's also worth noting that that imposter syndrome can make us, um, you know, When we are writing really formally, we can be trying to protect ourselves from making mistakes or someone calling out on us, like on a source or things. So loosening up and knowing that no matter how much we research or practice writing, we're still gonna make mistakes. That's normal. We're humans. We're not infallible. And if we can be less formal and connect with our readers, we can actually drive more change. So I think there's a range of people's voices as they're developing as a writer. Um, and some people will always be a little more formal, and that is just who their personality is, and that's totally fine. But it's also fine to loosen up and just be yourself.

Julia:

That was perfectly said. it's so true. It's like this, it's just like this tick to overcompensate, to validate like, Hey, I know what I'm talking about. Okay? Because unfortunately, everybody has an opinion and it doesn't feel good as a dietitian to always get slammed and discredited. So yeah, that was so insightful. Thank you so much for sharing that. I definitely am thinking about it still as I'm talking. I think it's also really hard to write for someone as if they were seeing it for the first time because we are so immersed in at 24 7 Um, So that can also be a really hard habit to break, especially in language even that you use to describe something.

Holly:

That's so true. And you know, I think sometimes the longer we've been in the field, and the more comfortable we are with the kind of nutrition that we practice in, we can forget what it feels like to be a beginner.

Julia:

Yes, exactly.

Holly:

And we don't ever want to, you know, overexplain or be demeaning, but we have to remember that a lot of people are beginners. Yes. And so we can really help them by starting at the beginning and not assuming that they know much.

Julia:

Yeah. So I wanted to ask you also, just cuz I'm curious, what is your dream writing project

Holly:

You know, I have to say that I'm doing it mostly. Um, I had a private practice years ago. I think that I'm proud of myself for being brave and trying a lot of different things over my career and not everything has worked out. And while maybe it didn't always feel so great in the moment, it's okay. Things have still worked out. Um, but most of my business is writing for rds in business writing is, um, writing is a completely different skill. And so as an entrepreneur, it's totally possible to learn every aspect of your business, but you will get a lot further if you give yourself to permission to delegate the pieces of the business that you don't like doing or aren't as good at, so as quickly as possible. So you can afford and have the confidence to delegate to someone else that will help your business grow better. Um, and I love writing for dietitians, so in any way that I can help their business to grow, it just makes me really excited because a lot of dietitians have zero interest in writing, but at the same time recognize that it's important. Their website, their blogs, their emails connect well with who they wanna connect with. So while I didn't become a dietitian to become a writer, I'm glad I'm here. I feel like I found my own little way to make the world a better place. In the future. I think it might be fun to. Ghost write a book for a dietitian. I think it'd be fun to tackle a bigger project or like a white paper. I haven't done that yet, but I'd like to. Um, but for now I'll say I'm taking this journey as it comes. That's so great. That's so inspiring. You're livin' the dream. Yeah, it's nice. I feel like I'm in the right place with the work that I'm.

Julia:

That's so nice. And when you first became a dietitian, did you ever imagine this would be your professional direction? I know you mentioned you did private practice for a bit and here you are.

Holly:

No. You know, I didn't know that you could be a writer as your full job until embarrassingly recently.

Julia:

That's so funny. So how recent are we talking.

Holly:

I don't know, the past couple years.

Julia:

Within the past five years.

Holly:

Yeah. I'll tell you, I got my first freelance writing thing in the most unicorn fashion that just, it doesn't happen, I don't think really. Um, but I had my private practice and it was long enough ago that I don't think so many people were trying to be writers. And, the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, our professional organization in here, in the US actually reached out to me cuz they had this idea of, um, having a, an article about, snacks for bikers. Okay. And at the time my blog was terrible. I was talking about all sorts of different things. It was not a concise, it was just like off the. Stuff. But I was also training to do this bike ride that went from New York City to DC. Oh my gosh. So I had this little unicorn intersection of me being a dietitian blogger and biker. So they reached out to me, which just, it doesn't really happen. And then because that happened, I thought that's how it happened. I just kept waiting for more people to reach out to me and give me work. That took me a little while to realize that was a one time thing. Like, you need to now find your clients. That's rare. Mostly if you would like to be a writer for anyone listening. You have to reach out to people, pitch them, and be willing to be told no many times.

Julia:

It's uncomfortable. It's scary, but you gotta gotta do it right.

Holly:

Yeah. It's hard, the magic, but you can do it.

Julia:

Yes. And I did wanna ask you, just cuz I know listeners have children or maybe they're about to have babies., how is the transition as you enter this new season of life? I know we've chatted about it briefly throughout, but I just thought maybe you wanna share a notes about it.

Holly:

I'll say it's really helpful that this work is flexible. I'll also say it's a lot harder to do when you. A lot less sleep than you're used to. Yeah. And we're really lucky that in general our little guy is a good sleeper and we are, we we're old enough and have enough people who've had children before us to know, to be very grateful that he's a good sleeper So overall good. Um, I think trying to work and be a mother to an infant at the exact same time. It's still really hard. I think I pictured being able to work a little more while he is at home than is actually realistic or possible. So continuing to refine the way I do my work and the kind of clients I work with, so that, It truly fits into the Monday, Wednesday, Friday as much as possible. So I'm not trying to do both on the Tuesdays and Thursdays when he's home. I'm a lot closer to that. Um, but that's the goal. Yeah. Cause it's, it's just really hard to split focus. And I know people do it and I'm working through it now, but my goal long term is to just be working Monday, Wednesday, Friday and doing the mom thing Tuesday, Thursday.

Julia:

I really appreciate you answering that. I know I snuck it in there. It's been so great to chat with you. That does take us to the end of the episode. Did you wanna share any closing remarks with listeners or plug any upcoming events?

Holly:

I do. I am a freelance copywriter and also copywriting mentor, so if people are interested in learning writing skills, that's one way that I can help you. I have a free workshop on December 14th at 1:00 PM Eastern, which will be all about writing emails. There is some method to the madness and I have some things to offer. Um, I also have the RD Blog Club, which is a mentorship program that I wish I'd had when I was this person, entrepreneur, and felt overwhelmed and lonely and. Um, thought that working on my own stuff was really hard. So the blog Club is designed to run dietitians through writing one blog club, one blog post a month. So I provide the deadlines. I provide some live writing workshops so that you actually have time to work on your own blog, and then I edit it. I hire my proofreader to proofread it so that at the end of the month you have a blog post that's actually written, has been reviewed, so that you feel like it's a good blog, and then it's actually posted. Yeah, perfect.

Julia:

And I will link that for everybody in the show notes. Is it okay Holly if people directly reach out to you on Instagram after this episode?

Holly:

Absolutely. I'd love to chat. Writing is a great skill. It can be a great side hustle. If you want to just have something to balance what you are doing nine to five or want to lean into this to become a full-time or part-time career, it. Um, a great thing to be in, and I'd love to help anyone become a more confident and more skilled writer. That's great.

Julia:

Thank you so much.

Alrighty, that wraps up another episode. Next week just a reminder will be the final podcast episode for 2022. I will be back in january i just haven't nailed down the date yet but i'll update you as soon as I know. Feel free to reach out to Holly, all of her information is in the show notes I'll see you guys next tuesday Bye!